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Eli Porter Amarr Altruism. Avarice.	Posted - 2009.08.03 12:25:00 - [1] Edited by: Eli Porter on 03/08/2009 12:28:18 The Tempest is a very good fleet sniper boat. The damage type from Tremor is very important nowadays when everyone is armor tanking, and the huge Alpha is also very centric to any sniper BS fleet. You can get by with lower scan resolution than most(Apocalypse NEEDS high scan resolution to get the full use of their damage type, Tempest doesn't and its damage type actually encourages having lower scan resolution than most) and having the lowest base signature really helps out your survivability. Not to mention you aren't limited to your cap in long engagements. I made this fit which is DD tanked, and has equal DPS to the other snipers. However the only real disadvantage is the poor optimal. 140 optimal and a bit over 40 Faloff limits your range a bit(Sniper BS fleets usually want a 150-170 range), and if there's any change that's going to come to the Tempest, that's where I'd like to see it. [Tempest, Fleet Sniper] Damage Control II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II 1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Reactor Control Unit II Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L 1400mm Howitzer Artillery II, Tremor L [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Projectile Collision Accelerator I Trimark Armor Pump I Trimark Armor Pump I For those who want a short ranged Battleship, the Typhoon is right there for you(Though I agree the SP requirement is steep, but that's Minmatar for you.). And while I'm not a fan of the Maelstrom, many people adore it for its PvE capabilities.
Eli Porter Amarr Altruism. Avarice.	Posted - 2009.08.03 15:48:00 - [2] Edited by: Eli Porter on 03/08/2009 15:55:09 Quote: You mean like those armor tanking Rokhs? Alpha is worthless in sniper fleets, it's all about DPS Rokhs being the only shield tanking sniper boat(and the odd Maelstrom and Tempest) + I'd say it's safe to say Megathrons and Apocalypses are the vast majority of sniper boats out there. Alpha IS important depending on your fleet size. DPS? Tempest can reach that just fine, and it doesn't use cap. Range is still an issue though(Which IMO should be fixed by either buffing large artillery range or adding Falloff bonus to TE+TC's). Quote: The tempest is a worse sniper than the maelstrom, which is easily worse than the megathron, apoc, and rokh. So no, it's crap. I agree Maelstrom is a better sniper(by a bit), but imo the cost is too high compared + the sig radius on a shield tanked Maelstrom is terribad(enough time to warp out when getting primaried is important). The damage type+no cap is what gives the Tempest and Maelstrom the "not crap" card in my book.
Eli Porter Amarr Altruism. Avarice.	Posted - 2009.08.03 15:50:00 - [3] Edited by: Eli Porter on 03/08/2009 15:51:17 Originally by: Beverly Sparks Low dps, low ehp, poor range, and bad tracking, and yet it is a good fleet sniper. I don't see it. I also don't understand how damage type and scan res are linked together. Explosive damage encourages low scan res, say what? DPS is not low. EHP is enough to DD tank (With the fit I posted anyway). Range is an issue. Tracking can be fixed by tracking computers which take the Sensor booster slot. While the Apocalypses lay down the EM damage to take out the shield, you will be finishing the lock and killing the armor with your Exp/Kin damage.
Eli Porter Amarr Altruism. Avarice.	Posted - 2009.08.03 16:19:00 - [4] Edited by: Eli Porter on 03/08/2009 16:19:40 Originally by: AstroPhobic Rokhs are about tied with the apoc in the best sniper boat category, and even t1 nobs can fly them so I'd think they'd represent a rather large majority. Alpha is important... in a 5 on 5, but anything even 20+ and it becomes worthless. The tempest has one of the lowest DPS of the sniper boats and has crap range and crap EHP. Given the fact that sniper boats must fire at 150km (sometimes 180km) with maximum DPS and EHP, the tempest is a very poor choice. 5 on 5? When you're slugging it against another large fleet's Sniper BS fleet, you'd need way more than 5 people to kill a DD tanked BS in less than 5 seconds. The usual requirement of sniper boats: Over 300 DPS. The Tempest fit I posted has 335(with All V). 150-170km range. The Tempest fit I posted has 140km optimal +44km faloff. You can get 151km optimal if you switch the damage rig for a +optimal rig(DPS will be at 317). DD Tank. The Tempest fit I posted has that. Cap to last a good while. lolcap. When you're just sniping capitals, the Mega and Rokh, and some Apoc fits won't reach over the 6 minute marker unless they sacrifice their DPS for a cap stability rig(Like the Tempest does for a +optimal rig). The Tempest is not crap. It has room for a buff but calling it crap is going too far.
Eli Porter Amarr Altruism. Avarice.	Posted - 2009.08.03 17:13:00 - [5] Edited by: Eli Porter on 03/08/2009 17:13:44 Ah, reload time. Forgot to have that ticked.(I usually only EFT Amarr ships so I forgot about that) That seems to be the main issue then. Reload time/Ammo capacity and range on Large Projectiles. And I fully support fixing both those issues. EHP could use a very slight boost to make it viable in other situations as well. As for not using sniper BS's on cap fleets... I'll just say you never know for sure what you're gonna be facing(And not everyone can pilot dreads).
Eli Porter Amarr Altruism. Avarice.	Posted - 2009.08.03 19:32:00 - [6] Originally by: Seishi Maru That has unacceptably short range. Most FC I flew on last 1 year demans optimal OPTIMAL of 170 km. That setup gives 140 km optimal with only 20 km falloff more than a megatron. But IF tempest coudl fit that setup without the RC then it could fit a TE and get almost on par. So another way to boost tempest into the sniper department woudl be to give it 15% more powergrid (woudl also enable it to fit Active tanks with high tier guns, that would make some value for the no cap crap) Yes you could also fit a locus coordinator instead of the damage rig(bringing the DPS under 300). Either way Large Projectiles need a buff.
Eli Porter Amarr Altruism. Avarice.	Posted - 2009.08.03 19:54:00 - [7] Edited by: Eli Porter on 03/08/2009 19:54:37 Originally by: Bibbleibble Originally by: Eli Porter Originally by: Seishi Maru That has unacceptably short range. Most FC I flew on last 1 year demans optimal OPTIMAL of 170 km. That setup gives 140 km optimal with only 20 km falloff more than a megatron. But IF tempest coudl fit that setup without the RC then it could fit a TE and get almost on par. So another way to boost tempest into the sniper department woudl be to give it 15% more powergrid (woudl also enable it to fit Active tanks with high tier guns, that would make some value for the no cap crap) Yes you could also fit a locus coordinator instead of the damage rig(bringing the DPS under 300). Either way Large Projectiles need a buff. Your fit doesn't fit everything then. It ends up needing a 5% powergrid implant. Even avoiding that small pitfall, it only boosts your optimal by about 12km. Which still doesn't give it enough range. Both the locus coordinator and the damage rig use the same amount of powergrid. Though to your credit you need AWU V and Rigging IV to fit it without an implant(Though the same goes for many other Sniper BS fits which fit a weapon rig) And yes I agree that 150km is not enough. But it's the best you can get without seriously gimping your DPS or losing your DD tank (Same for the Maelstrom I believe). You can find some consolation in the Falloff, but it's... well Falloff.
Eli Porter Amarr Altruism. Avarice.	Posted - 2009.08.05 20:46:00 - [8] Edited by: Eli Porter on 05/08/2009 20:46:46 The Falloff bonus is a given if you want to give it the sniper role, but I'm unsure whether Rate Of Fire or Damage would be better as a secondary bonus. That wholly depends on how Artillery is buffed, I guess. Currently, ROF is more fitting. To make up for the inevitable loss in damage, giving it another turret slot and PG would work.
Eli Porter Amarr Altruism. Avarice.	Posted - 2009.08.07 01:24:00 - [9] Originally by: Anabella Rella Edited by: Anabella Rella on 06/08/2009 20:12:36 Some sort of response from CCP would be nice here. What do the devs see as the roles for Minmatar battleships in general, and the Tempest in particular? Quote: The Tempest is one of the Republic Fleet's key vessels; a versatile gunship proficient at long-range bombardment and capable of dishing out specialized types of damage with great effectiveness. A well-rounded squadron of Tempests has been proven time and time again to be an invaluable wild card in a fleet battle, one which opponents should ignore at their own peril. The Tempest is meant to be a long range ship. So first of all its range needs to be in line with the other sniper BS's. Take the Megathron for example. It has no inherent range bonuses, yet its guns(425 II's) can reach 168 Optimal + 30 Falloff with 2 +15% Optimal mods. The Tempest, with 2 +15% Optimal mods, can reach 140 Optimal + 44 Falloff. Then there's the DPS issue, which is easily solved by not forcing the Tempest into fitting an RCUII in its low slot for 1400's(or just adding a slot) just like the Mega doesn't have to.
Eli Porter Amarr Altruism. Avarice.	Posted - 2009.08.11 00:36:00 - [10] Methinks Presidio doesn't have 'Include reload time in DPS' ticked in EFT.
Eli Porter Amarr Altruism.	Posted - 2009.08.28 17:16:00 - [11] Originally by: Yifrosky Just fix Arty, give it a bigger clip and get rid of the insane power grid............ I personally consider the powergrid fitting requirement being the most annoying of the Arty's problem. Whats the point of using it when you cant even...........fit it. The problem with boosting artillery as a fix is that the Tempest will stay far inferior to the Maelstrom. The fact is that the Maelstrom takes away from the Tempest's "Core" role(Its in-game description as a long range specialist). Indeed, Artillery has issues with both DPS and range, but just boosting artillery is not the way to go, as you might solve one problem with Minmatar being sub-par snipers but you won't solve the problem of the Tempest being terrible. IMO, a boost to both the Tempest and Artillery is required. My goal would be to make the Tempest a bit better for Sniping than the Maelstrom, keeping the Maelstrom a better "overall" ship than the Tempest, and most importantly bringing Minmatar on par with the other races for sniping.
Eli Porter Amarr Altruism. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.09.03 08:25:00 - [12] Once you boost the Tempest+Large Projectiles, the Phoon's SP requirement problem will be less apparent, as the Tempest will come closer to it in performance at RR gangs. As it is, the Phoon is a great SR RR boat, and asking for a boost on it just takes away the much-needed spotlight on the Tempest.
Eli Porter Amarr Altruism. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.09.03 21:35:00 - [13] You also gave Ion Blaster Cannons to the Megathron and Mega Pulse Lasers to Geddon on RR fits?

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